Interview
Oleksandra Matviichuk: Ukraine between war and democracy
‘Our strength does not lie in vertical centralization, but in our civil society, in local democracy, in the freedom of speech, and in the belief of ordinary people that they can influence politics. And we won.’
In 2022, the Nobel Peace Prize committee tried to send a message of hope by awarding the prize to two human rights organizations: one Russian, Memorial, and one Ukrainian, the Center for Civil Liberties. We interviewed Oleksandra Matviichuk, the president of the Center for Civil Liberties and a tireless activist for democracy in her country since 2007.
What is the humanitarian situation for Ukrainian civilians living near the front line?
It is terrible. I believe it has become more evident to international public opinion that Russia uses war crimes as a systematic method. They deliberately target residential buildings, schools, churches, museums, and hospitals. It is a war tactic: they want to instrumentalize the pain and suffering of civilians to break the population’s resistance and occupy the country. This is even more evident in the cities and towns near the front line. Three days ago, Russian forces bombed a line of pensioners in an eastern town [Yarova] who were simply waiting to receive their pensions. There is no military necessity in doing something like that. There is no legitimate reason for Russia to do these things, except that it can.
From a domestic standpoint, I don’t think there is an adequate response from our state institutions, partly because the challenge is so enormous. For example, often there are no clear instructions on where to relocate these people, who are then unwilling to leave for an uncertain future. It’s a constant struggle. Anyone who has been to those villages knows that volunteers sometimes get on their knees, begging people: “Please, you must leave. You will be killed.” And the people reply: “But at least here we have a home. We don’t want to become homeless. We don’t speak other languages to go to other European cities.” The situation is very complicated and getting worse as the war progresses. But this is also why I want to highlight the volunteers – so many from all over the world – who are still working with incredible courage and dedication. Their work is a pure sacrifice, and I’m not sure that is clear to everyone here.
In 2022, you were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize together with a Russian organization. As a Ukrainian citizen and rights activist, do you believe there is still a possibility for you to cooperate with parts of Russian society?
We collaborate daily with some courageous Russian colleagues who work on human rights. Moscow is illegally holding thousands of Ukrainian civilians, and for us, the only way to identify their location when they are deported from the occupied territories is to have an independent local lawyer. These people, who put themselves at great risk, certainly cannot free those who have been abducted, but they provide information and help us deliver packages, medicine, or news from their families.
So you are not one of those people who think all Russians are bad?
No, it’s not about ethnicity. It is about the choice of values.
Two months ago, the Ukrainian government tried to dismantle the national anti-corruption bodies, and a number of protests broke out across the country. How did you view that situation?
The main problem is that war is poison for democracy everywhere, not just in Ukraine. War has its own logic, which is not the logic of democracy. The logic of war, for example, demands centralization and control, which leads to the thinking that “if we limit the independence of anti-corruption bodies, it will be much easier to govern the country.”
This type of reasoning damages the logic of democracy. But we have no choice. We are stuck between these two logics because we have to defend our country, our people, and our democratic choice. We must find a balance as a society for as long as the war lasts. This balance has been partly disrupted by military censorship, curfews and restrictions on the freedom of movement. Which is understandable; we are at war. But we did not accept placing the anti-corruption bodies under the authority of the prosecutor general’s office, because that was totally contrary to the logic of democracy. And I think what happened demonstrates Ukraine’s strength. Because our strength does not lie in vertical centralization, but in our civil society, in local democracy, in the freedom of speech, and in the belief of ordinary people that they can influence politics. And we won.
Don’t you think the main risk in this situation is a strong authoritarian drift by Zelensky’s government?
Unfortunately, that is a logical risk for any country at war.
Do you think President Trump’s negotiations will lead to an agreement?
I don’t think rolling out the red carpet is an effective tool for stopping an aggressor. I wish President Trump success, because he has said he wants to end this bloody war. And the Ukrainian people dream of peace. War is horrible, and no one wants it to end more than we do. But we need peace, not occupation. There is a huge difference between peace and Russian occupation, because peace means the freedom to live without fear of violence. Russian occupation means living in total uncertainty. It doesn’t just mean swapping one flag for another. Russian occupation means forced disappearances, torture, rape, the denial of one’s identity, the forced adoption of one’s children, filtration camps and mass graves. That is what Russian occupation is. So it is not an alternative to war.
Isn’t forced conscription increasing weariness toward the war? And don’t you think soldiers on the front feel abandoned by the rest of the country?
No, I think it’s normal that a segment of the population doesn’t want to go and fight; that would happen in any country. We are a democracy, and in a democracy, you have different ideas. Having only one idea for everyone is the hallmark of an autocracy. But conscription during wartime is a constitutional obligation. Of course, the government could be more organized, because the army is not just assault troops; it needs logistics, intelligence, administrative work, transport. There are different ways to fulfill one’s constitutional duty without being forced to go to the front. But I also understand that you can’t do everything at once; there are no miracles here.
Are you afraid the West might abandon Ukraine?
For the European Union, that would be a mistake. This isn’t just about Ukraine. Russia has sent drones into Poland, and this has shown that European countries are not prepared. You have tanks and very powerful weapons, but when these multi-million-dollar machines are attacked by devices that cost a few thousand dollars, you don’t know how to counter them. We know what to do. So, in my opinion, the right question is: Is the EU doing enough to protect its own citizens?
More must be done, without thinking that “what happens in Ukraine doesn’t concern us.” You must act before the problem arrives at your border, not wait until Russia proves it has no intention of stopping in Ukraine.
Do you believe the rumors that Trump has made a deal with Putin to get Zelensky out of the picture?
Any change of government in my country will be legitimate only if it is decided by Ukrainians through free elections. The United States cannot decide who will govern Ukraine, and neither can Russia.
What if the U.S. and EU stop supplying you with weapons and money?
It is very difficult to predict President Trump’s moves because he changes his policies often. Certainly, for the European Union, it is better to try to cooperate with the United States for as long as possible. But we Ukrainians must be prepared for any development, and we must always remember that the responsibility for the war – and for the country we will have after the conflict ends – is in our hands.
Originally published at https://ilmanifesto.it/la-guerra-avvelena-la-democrazia-ma-lucraina-non-ha-scelta-dobbiamo-difenderci on 2025-09-14